[Home]Evolution

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First take your population of creatures. Allow some to die - this will on average be the ones which are less suited to their environment. Make the rest breed. Repeat.

After a while, you'll find that your creatures are on average better suited to their environment, as a result of beneficial characteristics being inherited. The creatures hunting for/hunted by your creatures will then be under even more stringent pressure and will evolve faster. Voila! Instant natural arms race!

A couple of examples of evolution are as follows:



Myth Debunking



There are presumably good reasons for not accepting the hypothesis of evolution. There are also very bad reasons for not accepting it, often based on deliberate misunderstanding. If anyone has any of the former to discuss then that'd be cool; in the meantime, here's a few of the latter:

Mmmm, why "presumably"? Would you presume there are good reasons for not accepting the hypothesis of, say, general reliativity? There may be good reasons for not accepting it...there may not be...however, until someone puts forward these good reasons, I don't see why anyone should presume they exist. -- Xarak
Ignoring the accept existence of hypothesis / accept the truth of the hypothesis grammar thing..  If you accept evolution to be true then you have to accept that there are good reasons to doubt it.
That statement is so wrong in so many "have you stopped beating your wife?" ways.. ;) I am impressed. - MoonShadow
Since those who doubt it are able to breed, there must be some evolutionary advantage to it :)  Since the converse is not true (those who do not accept evolution do not have such a built in requirement to doubt that they are right) we can say that evolution disproves itself.  Which with a bit of handwaving becomes a proof by contradiction.  Ammo for the anti-apes!  --Vitenka
I used the word 'presumably' because at the time I couldn't think of any objections that actually had the capacity to disprove the evolutionary hypotheses, although I suspect that there may be a few. A weak example would be: civilisation screws evolution over, and yet we are developing the capacity to prevent genetic defects, therefore evolution is not all-encompassing, and we don't know precisely under what conditions it operates. So how can we accept it?
Fair enough, but I still don't see why you suspect these argments exist, even though you can't think of any. -- Xarak
Eh?  I gave such an argument above!  Lots of idi^H^H^Hpeople disbelieve evolution, and they have their reasons.  --Vitenka
The counterargument is of course that a similar situation exists with fluid dynamics, and yet we generally accept the Navier-Stokes equations as accurate. If anyone can think of any better arguments it would be great - hard to have a discussion without dissent or at least the potential thereof.
Incidentally, there are many reasons to doubt the theory of relativity - for a start, it doesn't work with quantum dynamics. Quantum dynamics is known to be a decent model under some circumstances, so it follows that general relativity is not general. If you're a Reductionist then by definition you must believe that there is a better theory lurking out there. - CorkScrew
I believe in classical dynamics for describing things on the metre length scale under certain conditions. I am quite capable of doing this even while using QM for describing radiation and electrons and SR for describing fast-moving macroscale objects (incidentally, the postulate of relativity - the laws of physics are the same no matter what frame they are applied in - is quite compatible with quantum mechanics IIRC). Any theory has limits on where it applies - CompareAndContrast? 'theorem'. --Requiem
However, Reductionists believe that there is a theorem for which the area of applicability is the entire universe, and for which all our theories are approximations thereof. General Relativity is a good approximation at certain scales, but it doesn't work at all scales hence cannot be the ultimate theory. Here's hoping we find the damn thing someday - my betting is that this AssemblyLanguage of the universe is out there somewhere, buried underneath the C++es and Pythons of the physical sciences. - CorkScrew

Vitenka's premises are incorrect. When we accept a scientific theory it doesn't mean we accept it as absolute immutable truth - that would be faith, not science; nor do we generally discard theories completely and start over from scratch when presented with facts that do not fit the theory - that would be stupid; instead, theories are adjusted or superseded as necessary. See [this FAQ], for instance. It is therefore somewhat irresponsible to say things like "If you accept evolution to be true then you have to accept that there are good reasons to doubt it", because they do not actually mean what it sounds like they mean. Let's take it apart, blow by blow.





The criticism here is that organs as complex as the human eye couldn't have arisen step by step (first install your retina, then evolve a decent lense etc). Therefore they must have been put together on the spot by a creator.

The flaw is that the fact that this argument does not preclude a small series of gradual changes. For example, I read once (Terry Pratchett, "Science of the Discworld" - could someone look up the reference?) that an experiment was done to model the evolution of an eye. They started off modelling a light-sensitive surface - a couple of thousand generations in, the eye looked vaguely human, and even had bifocal vision. Small steps add up.

Richard Dawkins goes through this particular argument with examples of species at various stages towards evolving an eye in "The Blind Watchmaker". Basically you have a layer of light sensitive cells, then they evolve a slight curve in the surface to give directional light sense.

If they curve in a convex fashion better direction sensing is produced by growing tubes around them. Then the tubes fill with transparent fluid to give protection to the cells. Evolution tweaks the optical properties of the fluid. Voila- an insects compound eye.

If the curve is concave better light direction sensing comes from increasing gradually curvature. Eventually there is a hole in the front of an eye socket akin to a pin hole camera. Fill with protective fluid, tweak optics and evolve a mechanism for changing the size of the hole dependant on light levels. Boom- Camera type eyes.


Au contraire. It doesn't take that many fruitfly generations to cause sufficient divergence to prevent interbreeding. Once the new fruitflies can't breed with the old ones, they are technically a new species.


It only takes one bit of radiation in the right place to give a fruitfly 4 extra wings. Go figure.
You might find that's two extra, four in total (although ICBW) :) Fruitflies are members of the Diptera - two-winged flies. Four wings is the basal condition, so it's not too surprising that they can revert. There was an interesting article in, um, Nature about the evolution of pelvic spines in sticklebacks. Hang on, will find a link - SunKitten
Article [here], interesting (and short) review [here]. You might need to be inside the university/have a subscription to Nature to view these - sorry - SunKitten


If size is an issue, compare the Chihuahua and the Great Dane. As far as the growth of extra flippers etc is concerned, it's quite hard to find examples as these kinds of evolution tend to occur either a) over ridiculously long periods or b) just after mass extinctions (ie not now). However, we do have decent fossil records of a dinosaurey thing with feathers, which, for example, strongly suggests a link between dinos and birds.


No, Satan is too busy writing my exam papers.

Seriously, it's kind of a waste to bring theological arguments into a scientific discussion, as the standards and methods of proof tend to be more or less incompatible. Less polite answers available on request :)


Can't think of anything else to put. Topics of interest:
GeneticAlgorithms - does anyone know how these work and how to code for them? See also CellularAutomata.
Actual references - all the above was straight out of my very poor memory; hard evidence would be good. See also [talk.origins FAQ].

-- CorkScrew



CategoryBiology
See also CreationScience

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