ElementalOblivion/ExampleMeeting

I'm just trying to run through this to see if I have the rules right and can work out what they actually mean... Please add comments or corrections.

: I've made additions to the example in bold. --AC

Necessary preliminary information is the current Elemental Strengths for this heartbeat (period of 48 hours). The strengths currently stand at Water 14, Fire 11, Earth 9, Air 6 (totaling 40 as always). So Water is currently the element of Primus, Fire Secundus, Earth Tertius and Air Quartus. These are a state of the world as it currently stands, and apply to all meetings and voting during the current heartbeat.

Van (AAAAAWWW), Allen (AAAAWWWW), Meruru (AAEEWWWW) and Dornkirk (EEEEEEFF) decide that, for the good of the world (and incidentally themselves) they need to have a meeting. Hitomi (EEEEAFFW) was not invited and Dilandou (FFFFFFFF) decided not to participate.

I have made the total number of each element equal. Is this necessary?

: Between all players, yes - not so much necessary, as an (intended) emergent property of the rules that it starts so and will always remain so. --AC

''(You might get imbalances through players dropping out part way through an Epoch, but

yes it is intended that the epochs start with a more or less equal number of each pawn type out there. --DR)''

First we determine the Masters of the Powers:
E: Dornkirk reigns uncontested
A: Allen and Meruru decide to work together and hence defeat Van to become the Master of Air
F: Dornkirk wins again...
W: Van convinces Meruru to work with him on this one.

What happens in the event of draws? The Primus hasn't yet been determined so we have no one to arbitrate yet.

As stated above: Primus is always defined so we do have an arbitrator. --AC

: *puzzled* Who? We know the arbitrator will be Water, but we do not have an actual person until it has been determined who has the greatest strength in Water? --Kazuhiko''

What happens if an element is not represented?

Good point, not addressed by the current rules. I'd imagine that Actions for that Power are deemed unable to emerge from that Meeting. "(No mages with any skill in Secundus were present, so no rule changes were possible" - etc.) --AC

: Only problem I can see is if Primus is not present to arbitrate a rules interpretation dispute. --DR

So the Masters are:
Primus (Water): Van / Meruru
Secundus (Fire): Dornkirk
Tertius (Earth): Dornkirk
Quartus (Air): Allen / Meruru

Van / Meruru now present their proposal for the raising or lowering of rule priorities.

Presumably, to propose a change requires the agreement of all members of the power?

No, just a majority. It was in fact imagined that different groups would discuss at a Meeting different proposals, and teams would form based on the ideas suggested, and the Masters would only be determined after this discussion period. Hence rule 28 of the /InitialRules. --AC

: So the determining of the 'Powers' and their actions effectively happen together towards the end of the Meeting? That would seem to make sense. --Kazuhiko
: Yes, I don't see these things necessarily happening in strict order within a Meeting. I'll have a go at an actual /ConversationLog --DR

Rule 10: "Planned raise(s) or lowering(s)". Is there such a thing as a non-planned change or do all changes proposed in this way require voting?

: The latter. We just use the word "planned" to indicate that it won't happen immediately at the end of the meeting, but will require voting. Of course, this is with the initial ruleset: people are free to propose rules that allow immediate raises/lowerings, as long as they don't contradict higher-up rules. --AC

Note that the voting for the proposed changes is done under the element Water

: Which I originally wrote as "is done under Water" ^^;;

Dornkirk (as Master of Secundus) now presents his proposals for changes to the rules. These changes require voting outside the meeting under the element of Fire.

Dornkirk (as Master of Tertius) now decrees (not really "proposes") a change to the elemental strengths. He would like to move a point from Water to Earth, but unfortunately water 'pawns' outnumber earth 'pawns' in this meeting (11 to 8) so instead he moves a point from Fire to Earth.

Does this change occur at end of meeting or at end of heartbeat?

End of heartbeat. This is so that the strengths can't change without giving people reasonable notice that it's going to happen, because that could affect which element is Priums etc. If you or others prefer some other concept to 'pawns', please suggest it, BTW. --AC''

: Hmm. 'Token'? Or turn it into game-speak and use something like 'crystal'? Djinn? (*has been playing too much GoldenSun?*) --Kazuhiko

Allen / Meruru (as Masters of Quartus) now decide to switch one of Van's Air pawns for one of Dornkirk 's Fire pawns. This occurs automatically at the end of the meeting.

I think we didn't intend for trades to be able to involve players outside of the meeting - probably that's just a hole in the rules as stated. We should change the /InitialRules. Because otherwise Dilandou and Hitomi could have a meeting while Dilandou is still convinced that he's got FFFFFFFF as opposed to FFFFFFFA, and this could affect Mastery at that meeting. --AC

I agree. You can't trade the pawns of someone not present. --DR

Don't meetings have to be sequential? Otherwise you can have no concept of the successive meetings for rule 33. --Kazuhiko

: I think Meetings have not duration. For the purpose of the game they are deemed to take place at a single instant - probably the second at which the actions to be taken at that meeting are finalised and hand are shaken upon said agreement. --DR

Once again, what happens if they cannot agree on an action? Presumably no action occurs?

: Certainly. They can choose to agree on no action, and thus outnumber Van. If Meruru likes Van's suggested idea better than Allen's, though, she can throw her influence in with him and thus end up with Van and Meruru being the Masters of Quartus, and getting to decree which trade occurs. Hence rule 28 (of the /InitialRules) on agreements within one Meeting being binding. --AC

The meeting now comes to a close.

After appropriate levels of drinking, SettlersOfCatan, anime-watching, destruction of floating fortresses, according to preferences of those present. If they're going to meet up face-to-face anyway, may as well make the best of it :) Of course, you didn't state this was a f2f meeting, so it could be happening via IRC, phone, Wiki page or whatever. In which case the destruction of floating fortresses might have to be postponed. --AC

: Why do you think Dilandou didn't participate? :) --Kazuhiko

The proposed changes to rules and rule priorities are put on the site for voting under the appropriate element. The change in elemental strengths is also noted in preparation for the actual change at end of turn.

: Trades can only involve players present at the meeting (as stated above), so no notification required. One aim in design was that the game ought to work even if people don't check their email / SMS / Wiki every day - once every heartbeat minimum should be fine. --AC

In voting, Van and Meruru manage to push their change through since they amount to 7 of the 12 Water pawns. Dornkirk's rule change is, however, overridden by Dilandou.

This occurs over the next couple of days, probably electronically. --AC

: One ruling I've just re-read would indicate that the voting from meetings this heartbeat actually takes place over next heartbeat rather than this one. Is that correct? And yet 25 states that "Actions ... take effect at the midnight following the end of the current heartbeat"? --Kazuhiko

Note: The next meeting may only consist of Hitomi, Dilandou and/or one of the others. Is DenialOfService? (Hitomi and Dilandou agree not to participate in any further meeting this turn) a legitimate tactic?

: I suppose so. There are inherent risks to having a Meeting of all-but-two or all-but-one of the players. Of course, Hitomi and Dilandou can't have a Meeting themselves this heartbeat either. And the rules ought to state that this "memory" of meeting attendees is reset each heartbeat. --AC
: Yes, I agree. We didn't think of that, but having it reset per heartbeat is a definite improvement. --DR