"Quick note: There's a fifth edition out now. And ParmaMagica is even more powerful. Spell level is subtracted from penetration total, and vis boosts only by 2 per pawn. --Vitenka "
Hmm, that seems a bit of a dim rules change. From a marvellously uninformed viewpoint, it'll have a few odd consequences unless they fixed this:
Vitenka becomes head of the Order of Hermes because he's untouchable. RunAndHide!!!
People take the penetration skill, finally.
People capable of inventing and casting huge spells end up casting pooty small ones as they're more effective.
Demon's eternal oblivion stops working since its effect is level based but its penetration tally drops as the level goes up. --Jumlian
Ah, sorry - Deo and similar have been extensivly reworked and the penetration skill now has multipliers based upon mastery and arcane connections. Pen * 5 seems possible but very hard to get. (Arcane plus ritual required) Dunno whether mentem has been fixed (since low level mentem is more effective than 'I soak it'.) Indirect attacks - they have clearer examples of what is parma'd and what isn't. I don't THINK indirect rocks work - but actually I'd be kinda happy with a rule "It isn't indirect unless it requires targeting and at least one round to hit" - making countermagic useful. Note that fireballs no longer require targetting rolls.
But yes, the 'slip a small spell through because you understand it' is nice, but can be counterintuitive. I would prefer ablative parma to also exist. And, of course, huge spells still work on everything other than magi... --Vitenka
Surely, it just makes it move in the direction of Nobilis - i.e. use indirect attacks rather than direct strikes. All the Parma in the world doesn't stop you falling into a hole that's just appeared in the ground, nor does it defend those you care about (i.e. your laboratory ^_^). But yes, it does make people take penetration, and from what I've heard of Vitenka it would make him even harder to touch. --Requiem is getting his copy fairly soon
Out of Curiousity: CURS bulk buy or are you going seperately --Edith
CURS bulk buy. --Requiem, who would love to know what the price is!
Check the Atlas website and amazon - $25 inc shipping until the end of the year. And if you wait until the end of the year, that's about 25p! As for hearing of me - parma of 14. Ridiculously untouchable. I think a directly targetted hole would fail, but yes it can wreck your stuff. Then again, in background, the parma is described as something that stopped the founders magic cold. Rather than a mild SpeedBump?. --Vitenka (Whose parma does stop the founder cold under 4th, and under 5th is unimaginable overkill.)
Silly comment - under 5th, Vitenka's parma would probably only be 7, since there seems to be a multiplier (of 3) on the number of experience points needed to raise certain skills? Also, I can see the Arm5 combat mage being a real possibility (big parma, sharp sword, will travel). --Jumlian
All skills cost five times their previous cost - experience points are shared between skills and arts now - so the same balance exists as did previously. I'll work out my exact new parma when I get the book, but AIUI you get more experience points than you used to. I've not heard of hermetic skills being made more expensive than normal skills - harsh but sensible if true. --Vitenka
Likewise. Although I find it interesting that this did not stop 11 people from ordering copies on one day's notice. --Edith.
AtlasGames? deserves our money. ArsMagica deserves our support. DavidChart? deserves an apology from me for stalking him. --Vitenka (I found him in the PhoenixRoom?. Yay!)
I have the book. Details will follow as I get them. To start with - character creation estimates 30 ability points per year - so throwing 15 or 20 into parma isn't impossible - which would give me the same score :) --Vitenka
First change: Virtues and flaws. There are tighter limits on what you must take (as before, exactly one social status) but new: at least one major hermetic flaw for any ex misc. Doesn't really change anything, just more guidelines for new players. All virtues (and flaws) are either 1 (minor) or 3 (major) points. Same limits. Having the gift is now a virtue! (Mages get it for free though, duh.)
Heh. There is a strong recommendation that parma be no higher than 1 out of apprenticeship. That's probably for players of 4th who are used to 5 as a practical minimum ;)
Start with 240 xp of arts, and 120 spell levels. Spell levels are as per Charts guidelines. Basically the same, on a first pass through - same kind of 15/25/35 split.
No it hasn't. It's just been relabled Coral, Red --Edith
Gentle gift is a major virtue - and the effects of the gift are much stronger. Brings grogs and companions to the front a bit more, I guess. I'd house-rule it back, personally. This is a game of mages sorcerors warlocks and other assorted things.
For note, the virtues in general are fairly powered down - mind control exists but is a bit harder and doesn't involve singing but instead 'look into my eyes...'
I don't SEE a way to get 'no words no gestures' from apprenticeship.
Three minor virtues (quiet, quiet, subtle). Or a Deft Art or two. --Inquisitor
Covenants are BUILT using points gained by writing in story hooks. Oh yes. Oh very yes.
Sword magi are harder to get - training is penalised by the social effects of the gift.
Well ok - but you can't usefully STAY one as easily. YMMV of course, since most XP can well come from adventuring anyway :) --Vitenka
There IS an attempt to explain multi-form objects like lava or ice. This attempt fails.
There is also a ruling (well, examples) to make them generally one art, instead of all relevant ones. --Inquisitor
Concentration is very hard. Spells whilst injured looks about 20% for a starting magus.
I was right on the muliplier of penetration. Absolute maximum is 12, but then you have to have be a blood relative of the target AND cast their birth horoscope, as well as knowing their name, their autograph etc. Sensible bonus of x5 is possible, if you create a voodoo doll with a bit of their hair. The penetration skill looks like a must for hoplites.
Damn. You can only share parma with targets permission. On the plus side, it's MUCH easier (no recasting of rituals, -3 to skill and can protect as many people as your skill - no drop based on number protected) ... You trust me, right? Because the mage granting can drop it at any time.
Dropping your parma is EXPLICITLY a total drop of all magic resist against everything. And you're EXPLICITLY vulnerable for a couple of minutes at sun rise and set.
Magical creatures bounce off parma, if they are actively enchanted. So if you can get through THEIR MR, but not your own... Oh gods. Turning things blue is a legit combat defence... against dragons.
As we understand this, no. The blue may well stop, but the dragon certainly doesn't. (If it *is*, however... I so win...) --Inquisitor
As the book states and the list then argues vehemently however, it does. This is very very simply houseruled as "The parma works and it works sensibly but it does NOT work reliably in outside edge situations." --Vitenka
How about I reveal my ruling on that the first time you try it in play? --Edith
The aiming skill is finesse - and is rarely used. But, by the book, bypasses parma completely.
Aimed attacks are indirect attacks are attacks which bypass Parma, basically. Finesse is also used for illusions, and quite a few individual spells. --Inquisitor
Oooh - one level of mastery (5 xp) can be used to buy double magic resistence against it. Another good reason to be clever when inventing spells.
Ah - found it. You have to buy silent casting for each spell individually. Which makes sense. There IS a virtue to give you one level of silence, and another to give you a level of mastery in every spell you learn, for free. So it's not so different - you can still do it, but it's a major investment.
Every botch gives a warping point. Warp points are XP in a 'warped' skill. At 1 you get a minor flaw (except mages, I think) Then again at 3. At 6 (and each beyond) you get a MAJOR flaw. Buuut... at five you get a minor virtue. Very flavourful. Twilight also lasts longer if you are warped. Measured in years if you are getting major flaws from it.
But generally reduced again, by your control roll --Inquisitor
Entering twilight, longevity (or any other long term) potion, exploding crystal balls, living in a high aura (6+) - all cause warping. Staying an animal for long periods of time also gives warping. Well, that explains a lot :)
You can make an arcane connection permanent, through lab work. OhEnemyMyEnemy? ;) Oooh, there's a max limit on vis use in the lab - Twice MagicTheory?. Otherwise lab rules seem identical, except you cannot learn from spellbooks, you must reinvent from lab texts.... But this is just a flavour change. You can learn up to your lab total (single tech form combination as usual) of spells from texts in a single season.
Experimentation in the lab is still insufficiently rewarding. Damn shame. Hmmm - then again, complete failure only occurs on a botch or a roll of (exactly) 8. Anything else the spell still works.
As stated earlier, familiar bonds are using the same system as making spells or items.
Making a talisman takes two seasons flat. (The MR limit to vis use applies here) - and you can enchant it with up to your max tech+form in magnitudes of effects. And you can open every shape/material attunement, one a season. This is a free thing you get whenever you're working on it for a season for another reason.
Intelligo spells are no longer affected by the size of the target. Which ruins the punchline of 50% of hermetic jokes.
The rules for 'what is a ritual' have been written. Level > 50 is always ritual - which severely limits death spells.
Veil of invisibility is now level 20. No other spell levels seem majorly changed.
Quite a bit of elemental Rego is now Creo, however. --Inquisitor
The 'I imbue you with magic as an attack, to cause twilight' spell is now in the basic book. *le sigh*
MuVi? botch dice seem to be gone, I don't see them.
Oh ouch. They DIDN'T improve DEO. It does work as asusmed - you have to slip small ones through to weaken it before you can get bigger ones through to banish. Ouchie. Magic mights are greatly reduced over 4th, though.
There is no ReVi? parma boost. However - there are 10 generic countermagics in PeVi?, one per form, and it cancels spell level +10 - which is SORTA like your casting total.
Adventuring is worth 5-10 xp (old xp of 1-2, so about the same as before - and the 1 per ability is retained, though now it's 5, obviously.)
But you can increase arts through adventuring now! Yay! So, if I had really been playing under 5, I'd probably have ended up actually competent, rather than just completely magically resistant.
Practicing is now 3-8 (by GM fiat) So grogs are sane again. training is, however, faster. (But, obviously, limited)
Studying from vis is much crappier now - it uses 1 vis per current magnitude (instead of just 1), and you don't get to multiply by using more vis.
You write much better books by default now. Both level and quality. But you ARE encouraged to rush whilst copying books, which drops their quality. Nice touch.
Aging is complex as hell, but the terminal of it is an ability xp as per warping and you then roll that with 15+ being illnesses that can kill, and 8+ is weeks or months bedridden.
Fatigue in combat is now the option of the character. Take fatigue for a (potentially considerable) bonus.
Confidence is even crappier than normal. Use it and it's gone forever, use it for a +3 on any non-botched roll. And you're expected to gain 2-3 points per session, awarded like xp is awarded in a normal game. I don't like this at all. You can spend one point per roll, or more if you have an appropriate virtue.
Spell guidelines are nicely cleaned up. Muto and Rego are especial benefactors. Muto can now change any unnatural quality, and Rego can change any natural one. So to make a tree larger, or bear (seedless) fruit is Rego. Sculpting rock into a statue is Rego. Giving a dog wings - that's Muto. As is, through a complicated explanation of essential natures, turning a brown dog white.
Faith based magic resist truly truly rocks. You aint charming no saints.
There's a nice side effect to the new potion creation rules - basically, if you think about it, it allows you to cast a spell with many times your original penetration as long as you spend a season doing it. A second season to 'fix' the arcane connection (which makes it permanent, and hence adds 4 to your multiplier) and penetration becomes feasible again.
Spell mastery rocks. It really does. Every spell can be studied as an ability - it now explains exactly how many botch dice you knock off and lets you have extra special bonuses. There's a bit of a conflict in that multicasting makes aiming harder - but almost no spells require aiming now. I'd suggest that if you multicast, they do. But more to the point, you can double your magic resistance to any spell you know (or similar spell bonus), per level of mastery in it. Two levels of mastery in fireball? FireProof?. --Vitenka
Oh, advancement is slightly slower than in 4th - though mainly in arts due to vastly toned down 'study from vis' rules. And the aging rules can be very harsh if you roll badly. I strongly urge letting people spend confidence on these. --Vitenka
Oh SUGAR. I've been using this page like my personal page, which it is not. RefactorWithABigStick? when I get a RoundTuit. --Vitenka
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