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Archived discussions from /ComboMeThis.

Quicksilver Elemental

PeterTaylor thought there was a discussion somewhere about breaking MTG: Quicksilver Elemental (or failure to do so so far!), but can't find it. Anyone point him in the right direction? In the meantime, he's been looking through his cards-not-in-decks, and it seems that the Mirrodin Golems work moderately well (combine combat tricks), although the striking theme coming out was mana colouring. To which end, some ToothyWikizens may find it amusing to work out which other creatures must be in play for Quicksilver Elemental to acquire (in effect) "XUU, tap: put an amount of green mana equal to X into your mana pool".
Not got this.  I've got two ways which will work if you only spend blue mana on X - this could end up adding as much as 3*X green mana, depending on your choice for the other creature.  But I haven't found any that'll do it for X colourless yet.  My previous idea of a random Mirage uncommon doesn't work, because of a restriction on that card I didn't notice at first. --AC
(PeterTaylor) For 3+X, only spending red or blue mana is Trivial.
Could you clarify what you mean by "For 3+X, only spending red or blue mana"?
E.g. nick firebreathing. You may spend blue mana as though it were red to use the ability, but you can just spend red.
Ahhh.  Finally got one half of the combo (the ea06etc half).  I wasn't using that card at all at all.  You can filter X+2 blue mana into 3*X green using Quicksilver Elemental with 10be6012fd6d6ad74f14209d4c90e383 (or ea06... -- PT) and either 6737e2c899b622dc95d428198ed55fca or 85f761b70185de17f80f5091097b22c6 .  Still need to figure out what 3cd3etc is.  --AC
(PeterTaylor) Using three other cards, I think I can turn X+3 blue into 6 * 2^X green. Now that's what I call mana acceleration. To make it go infinite, I just need a way of turning mana into an untap repeatedly - for silliness purposes, MTG: Intruder Alarm and MTG: Centaur Glade is probably the way forward. Or, for even more silliness, the ability to colour green mana to other colours (MTG: Nomadic Elf) allows the X+2 blue -> 3*X green combo above to become UU: put any amount of mana in any colours you choose into your mana pool. I think Quicksilver Elemental is now officially broken.
MTG: Pemmin's Aura and MTG: Wirewood Chaneller. Infinite mana isn't all that hard to get. (I kept trying to build a Future Sight deck that used it to go off all in one turn  but kept deciding that once you had infinite mana, going off like that was somewhat pointless, and just killing the opponent was easier). I'd need more evidence before I started shouting 'broken'. (Now, if all of the components were parts of an already Tier 1 or 2 deck, that mich be a cause for concern...) -- TI
AC agrees.  A four-card combo is almost by definition not "broken".  Particularly since Scourge, Wizards have been rather relaxing their restrictions which prevented 2-card infinite comboes.  Building ones with Quicky (eg have a Channeler and a Morphling out) which can already be done by two cards (Channeler and Aura) aren't too exciting, somehow, although may be useful in practice to lend more consistency.  The fun things to do with Quicky will be either creating combinations which really didn't exist before, or putting together a toolbox of things which all work nicely together.  (Eg my old Tim deck had MTG: Lowland Basilisks and MTG: Horseshoe Crabs, as well as enchantments to make anything a Tim or Basilisk... adding a Quicksilver Elemental to that mix would work quite well, even though Basilisking isn't an activated ability).  "Broken" is quite a term to throw around, unless you're using the Anthony Alongi-style stretch as in "Break This Card".  --AlexChurchill
I know you can produce infinite mana with fewer cards. Indeed, the deck I was sketching out was along the lines of

3x Quicksilver Elemental
2x Morphling
2x Horseshoe Crab
4x Pemmin's Aura
3x Viridian Joiner
3x Elvish Aberration
3x Wirewood Channeler
2x Nomadic Elf
2x Krosan Restorer
4x Soothsaying
1x Centaur Glade
4x Wirewood Lodge
Random finishers (e.g. 1 each of Fanning the Flames, Consume Spirit, Chimeric Staff, Energy Bolt, Firecat Blitz, Rolling Thunder, Tribal Unity).
AC suspects MTG: Hermetic Study or MTG: Viridian Longbow might be more useful than the Wirewood Lodges or all 4 copies of Soothsaying (which is useless in multiples).  With Crabs, Morphlings and Auras, a machinegun would be quite common, and rather useful to keep you around till your combo goes off.

Incidentally, how was the UU + X colourless -> X green working?  I realised MTG: Viridian Joiner, but can't find any colourless power-pumpers that won't also shrink his toughness (like MTG: Morphling or MTG: Pemmin's Aura), which kinda prohibits getting more than about 5 green from him.  As you say, firebreathing would make it trivial, and there might be some MTG: Riptide Mangler tricks possible, but they all involve coloured mana... Unless you're going to bring out the MTG: Soldevi Simulacrum, I suppose.--AC
The answer's already on this page.

One way to use Quicky for infinite mana that can't be done with creature enchantments is this:
Have out MTG: Quicksilver Elemental, MTG: Wirewood Symbiote, any one-mana Elf like MTG: Llanowar Elves, and either MTG: Argothian Elder plus some land making >=2 mana, or a MTG: Krosan Restorer with Threshold.  Then each U gives Quicky another copy of the use-only-once-a-turn Symbiote ability... so you tap your mana-maker for 3 mana including GU, spend the U to let Quicky bounce an elf, bounce the elf to untap your mana-maker, and spend G to recast the elf.  I still think Peter's abuse of the Symbiote with MTG: Unnatural Selection or MTG: Conspiracy was better, though: let it bounce *itself*, so you get to use the ability multiple times a turn.

Other MTG: Quicksilver Elemental ideas:
MTG: Auriok Bladewarden and MTG: Riptide Mangler :)
And MTG: Spikeshot Goblin, yes. Power/toughness and the odd combat trick (regeneration, gaining first strike / trample) is probably the best way to use it. The Bladewarden was behind my exponential blue-to-green colouring.

Solution to the mana colouring problem (names in lower case): 3cd31932eb6d7338fe374c1c8856e36f and ea0636bc8ec5f1544b005168e13733f0

The combo I had come up with shortly after I saw MTG: Quicksilver Elemental was with MTG: Chronatog.  You have the Elemental target the Chronatog twice, getting two instances of its ability, each of which can be used once.  You then have the Elemental target itself.  It now has four copies, then eight, then sixteen, and so on.  Attack for ridiculous amounts of damage.  Mind you, a single MTG: Fog and you're wishing you'd brought a book or two.
In the same vein but sillier, equip it with two copies of MTG: Slagwurm Armor and have MTG: Wall of Roots in play.  Activating it's ability copying ability five times nets you 16 instances of the Wall's mana ability.  You have just turned UUUUU into GGGG GGGG GGGG GGGG. --Ultros

Will this work?

MTG: Quicksilver Elemental, MTG: Arc-Slogger, MTG: March of the Machines and MTG: Synod Sanctum

Would be very hard to pull off. However, if you could, would it do as I expect? And how silly would it be? --qqzm
Yes, I think this works. But isn't it easier just to use MTG: Ghitu Fire for all your instant-speed X direct damage solutions?
BwaHaHaHa!  Yes, I think this works.  And the aim isn't direct damage, just putting vast amounts of cards into play!  Finally, a relevance for CompRules 212.5d and 212.7d.  I love it! --AC
Upon further consideration: with Quicksilver Elemental and March of the Machines out, even more attractive than normal is the MTG: Legacy Weapon... not only can you pay six coloured mana to remove target permanent from the game, but it's also a 7/7 beater :)  I wonder whether it's worth working out a wacky deck around this... :)  --AC

MTG: Quicksilver Elemental, MTG: Arc-Slogger, MTG: Opalescence and MTG: Shared Fate unfortunately, does not work. Which is a shame. Can anyone think of a way to do what I'm driving at here? --SF
Hmmmm.  A CrystalKeep? search for "may play.*as though.*in.*hand" returns no /activated/ abilities that do what (I think) you want.  MTG: Ice Cauldron almost works, but not quite (and that card's just weird anyway, maybe due for its own /ComboMeThis heading).  --AC
You can make this work, actually, I think.  You need to use MTG: Vesuvan Doppelganger on the MTG: Arc-Slogger, eat some library at your leisure, and then next upkeep have the Doppelganger become instead a copy of your animated MTG: Shared Fate, to let you play any of the eaten library.  Rather coolly Shared Fate's second ability works on all removed cards - it's not worded like MTG: Aerial Caravan, MTG: Mind's Desire, etc, which all add the "may play as though" clause into the ability which removes them from the game in the first place. --AC

Update: [Saturday School] claims it doesn't work, and the [discussion] in the mtgcom forum, while disagreeing with the reasoning, agrees that it doesn't work (because it's you removing cards from the game rather than MTG: Arc-Slogger). There are replacements, though: MTG: Aerial Caravan, damage and MTG: Bone Mask, MTG: Chaos Harlequin, animated MTG: Necropotence, but probably best of all MTG: Divining Witch.

AlexChurchill: I still disagree with John Carter. He can be wrong, as he admits in the same article. I quote from my email to him:
MTG: Synod Sanctum doesn't say "removed from the game this way" to tie it to the first ability, it just says "removed from the game with ~this~." The recent MTG: Moonring Mirror has two abilities which can remove cards from the game, and the FAQ specifically states that the phrase "all other cards you own removed from the game with Moonring Mirror" includes cards removed by both those abilities.

The Quicksilver Elemental ends up with three activated abilities:
R, Remove the top ten cards of your library from the game: ~this~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
2, T: Remove target permanent you control from the game.
2, Sacrifice ~this~: Return to play under your control all cards removed from the game with ~this~.

And looking at those abilities without knowing that they came from separate cards, there's no way to tell the third refers to the second and not the first.

But isn't the first RFG-ing paid as an additional cost, rather than being part of the ability? I.e. you could MTG: Stifle the first ability and the cards would still be removed. So it's not being removed by the Elemental. Or am I missing something? --Requiem
It is as an additional cost rather than part of the effect, yes; but I don't see why you think that's relevant. The wording is exactly the same in both cases (an instruction in the imperative on the Quicksilver Elemental to "remove (x) from the game"). I'm not aware of any precedent or ruling to indicate that in one case it's the creature doing the removal, and in the other it's something else. It's possible I'm wrong, but I'm currently reasonably sure that the distinction you point out has no consequence. --AlexChurchill
Having looked further into this, the question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction, but the consensus among official sources seems to be that it doesn't work. Not because of any nonexistent concept of who/what is doing the removing (some people reckoned that the phrase "remove foo from the game" in a cost meant the player did it, but in an effect meant the creature did it). The real problem seems to be which card the ability "originated from". This really doesn't make much sense to me, and I am going to keep trying to get a proper answer, but this post is the most relevant that I've found so far: http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0312B&L=mtg-l&P=R192 --AlexChurchill


An one turn kill, but does involve having 3 MTG: Black Lotuses and MTG: Dragonstorm in you opening hand... or should this go into the 'Bad use of Good card' section?

Shahrazad evilness

I possess almost none of the required cards, the ones I do are either in decks or needed for my new deck idea, and it is a seriously evil concept, but I find myself being drawn to it... How many people would actually lynch me if I brought a proxied version of Mark Gottlieb's last deck in [this column] to GamesEvening? --ChrisHowlett
That was truly wonderful, wasn't it? Mark G has been on top form recently. I'd love to play against that deck. I've also got a deck from an old mtg.com article that I'd like to proxy up and play. Well, that goes without saying - but there's one in *particular* at the moment :) ... although its fondness for certain cards in graveyards probably means it wouldn't like meeting the Shahrazad deck. (Which isn't as bad as RichardGarfield?'s old imagined pre-DCI Shahrazad deck: 20 plains, 40 Shahrazad :) --AlexChurchill
I certainly wouldn't play against a Shaharzad deck. Decks which purely exist to make the game longer are rather counterproductive (as, opposed to, say. PeterTaylor's modular and MTG: Power Conduit decks, which are counter productive, or my UR creatureless deck, which is counter-destructive.. Or MTG: Hindering Touch, possibly the most counter-productive single card in Magic --AC MTG: Decree of Savagery --PT But that produces counters, not... "Counters"... Perhaps I should have said the most "Counter"-productive spell --AC anyway) given that GamesEvening is somewhat time limited. Aluren in the Ranks is bad enough (anyone got an MTG: Brand?) --SF
Ah, the return of "And in response, I" and then lean over the table and headbutt him.  --Vitenka
He certainly has been throwing out some funky ideas, yes - the Mycosynth Lattice-Null Rod combo is truly evil as well... But, so long as someone's willing to play it at least once... It'll probably be deconstructed after that one play. --CH
I've proxied the deck, and have started playing another deck with it. So far, I have a stack of games 5 deep, and 2 wide at one point. Not too long ago, the stack was 5 deep, and 2 wide at 2 points. I may finish this game later. Along with postulating a rule "If you can create a stack 6-deep, you win outright"... --CH

Saturday School ideas

Anyone else frankly terrified by the Saturday School suggestion of MTG: Phyrexian Dreadnought comboing with Modular creatures? It basically comes down to (assuming you can get the mods into play) "Tap 1, I play a 24/24 Trample".
No, not really. It takes a sufficient number of turns to get the modular creatures into play that anyone ought to have an answer ready by then. All five colours can deal with it (Astral Slide, Boomerang, Dark Banishing, Shatter, Oxidize); so why should I be worried. MTG: Illusionary Mask, yes. Other Dreadnought combos, no. --SF
Hmm. Control? Wrath of God? --Requiem

Today's [Saturday School] has a possibly slightly more potent oddball combo - MTG: Myr Landshaper and MTG: Splinter. Now that's what I call mana denial!
Indeed. The more traditional version is the black card in the cycle, MTG: Eradicate, on a Forest/whatever animated in any old way (eg MTG: Vivify). Obviously MTG: Sowing Salt only works on nonbasics. That ol' special treatment that basic lands get in the deckbuilding rules keeps making people want to bully them... It's still hard to beat *that* article of MarkGottlieb?'s for sheer anti-land nastiness, though. --AlexChurchill


Prompted by [Attack of the Bombos] (Mark Gottlieb). The first non-working combo is MTG: Tangleroot and MTG: Wirewood Symbiote. The way to fix the combo is mentioned further up - MTG: Imagecrafter or MTG: Conspiracy allow the Symbiote to keep bouncing itself and get round the once-a-turn restriction.

How else can one use Tangleroot to get infinite spells? MTG: Equilibrium and MTG: Ornithopter works. MTG: Shrieking Drake would work with a way to colour G to U (MTG: Orochi Leafcaller), or something with a similar effect (MTG: Mycosynth Lattice, although crystalkeep doesn't support Darksteel cards); Tangleroot, Tangleroot, Shrieking Drake and MTG: Nomadic Elf is stretching it a bit.

Might want a few mana sinks - MTG: Mistform whatever, for example.

Green and blue provide two storm cards which serve as finishers: MTG: Brain Freeze and MTG: Hunting Pack.
PeterTaylor might try to put together a full deck-list around this skeleton at some point...

Heh. AC was considering doing this himself. I went with black for MTG: Conspiracy and MTG: Diabolic Tutor / MTG: Insidious Dreams, which offers the even more instant kill of MTG: Tendrils of Agony, although keeping blue as well for MTG: Imagecrafter allows the tempting fun of MTG: Cavern Harpy. Pity we don't have red for MTG: Pandemonium, MTG: Furious Assault, and so on. All I can think of in white is MTG: Soul Warden, who isn't a win condition in and of herself, although she's likely to keep you alive until you find one.
(PeterTaylor) If you're going MTG: Conspiracy and creature triggers, I'd name Beast, run MTG: AEther Burst, drop the Tangleroot and the Symbiote, and use MTG: Orthithopter with MTG: Equilibrium, or MTG: Shrieking Drake, or MTG: Myr Incubator, for the kill.
I'm now envisioning... The Five-Colour Deck of 1/1s for 1! White: MTG: Soul Warden. Green: MTG: Wirewood Symbiote and MTG: Llanowar Elves. Blue: MTG: Imagecrafter and MTG: Shrieking Drake. Black: MTG: Maggot Carrier. Obviously throw in MTG: Equilibrium, MTG: Furious Assault, and maybe MTG: Crystal Shard, MTG: Erratic Portal or MTG: Sunken Hope. Unfortunately for red MTG: Mogg Sentry doesn't quite work, so to include a red one it'd probably have to be MTG: Warbreak Trumpeter along with MTG: Aether Charge and MTG: Conspiracy. I rather like the idea of building a strongly themed deck where the only creatures cost 1 mana. I'm tempted to suggest a theme deck contest where nothing can have a mana cost of 2 or greater... --AlexChurchill

ChrisHowlett was more intrigued by the Bad Medicine deck, and while not possessing anywhere near all the listed cards, could probably get substitutes. All except the MTG: False Cure. Sigh. Thwarted by lack of rares - and Tutors for that matter.

Kaldratron pre- and post-Kamigawa

PeterTaylor thinks he had this idea himself, although he certainly heard other people talking about it at the pre-release. Moreover, in order to get an AwfulPun? he's forced to use his current favorite creature type. Could the Exalted players on the wiki please help me name the combo / deck? I'm hoping there's an Academy somewhere which churns out Sidereals...
MTG: Sword of Kaldra + MTG: Shield of Kaldra + MTG: Helm of Kaldra + MTG: Artificial Evolution, which applies s/\bLegend\b/Bureaucrat?/ to the Helm. The result is "1: If you control equipment named Helm of Kaldra, Sword of Kaldra, and Shield of Kaldra, put a 4/4 colorless Avatar Bureaucrat creature token named Kaldra into play and attach those Equipment to it."
I'm not sure whether it's possible to build a Standard-legal deck around this which stands up to tournament-level Affinity, but my untested attempt would be:
2 x MTG: Sword of Kaldra
2 x MTG: Shield of Kaldra
2 x MTG: Helm of Kaldra
3 x MTG: Eyes of the Watcher
4 x MTG: Fabricate
4 x MTG: Steelshaper's Gift
4 x MTG: Merchant Scroll
2 x MTG: Artificial Evolution
4 x MTG: Annul
4 x MTG: Remove Soul
3 x MTG: Tel-Jilad Justice
3 x MTG: Thought Courier
4 x MTG: Elfhame Palace
4 x MTG: Mirrodin's Core
15 x MTG: Island

Recurring Mindslavers

qqzm's first silly Fifth Dawn combo deck will attempt to pull off the following...
Turn 1: Island, Careful Study ditching MTG: Mindslaver + 1.
Turn 2: Land that produces a colour of mana other than blue, MTG: Pentad Prism.
Turn 3: Land that produces a third colour of mana, MTG: Bringer of the White Dawn.
Turn 4: Land, laugh evilly.
(PeterTaylor) Shouldn't that be "Turn 4: Land, laugh evilly"?
Indeed it should --qqzm
Hmm. Odd. Follow that MTG: Mindslaver link. There's something strange going on there. --CH
That is indeed *distinctly* odd! --AlexChurchill
PeterTaylor didn't notice anything odd. You two do realise it's standard for the MTGNews spoiler generator to display a single card if only one card matches a query, don't you?
Nor did StuartFraser, the first twice. Why CH seems to regard everything as a puzzle is beyond me, but the problem here is that the rules text as listed on the MTGNews spoiler and the actual JPEG? of the card disagree. Which you would have thought unlikely to happen...
Sorry, I suppose it's in my nature. But yes, that is indeed what I meant. I can't imagine where they got a jpg of what seems to be an actual, released Mindslaver with activation cost 3. --CH
Well, it wouldn't be hard to Photoshop. To me the question is more why they have the modified image there. Could it be some left-over AprilFools joke? --AlexChurchill
PeterTaylor wonders whether the image was leaked from within Wizards during development.
It's very high quality if so. --CH

Quick first version of a decklist...

Combo: 8
4x Bringer of the White Dawn
4x Mindslaver

Mana Fixing: 14
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Channel the Suns
4x Pentad Prism
3x Darksteel Ingot

Card Drawing: 14
4x Careful Study
4x Condescend

2x Bringer of the Black Dawn
4x Serum Visions

Land: 24
4x Flooded Strand
4x Windswept Heath
3x City of Brass
4x Mirrodin's Core

1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Forest
4x Island

PeterTaylor suggests the black Bringer to replace the blue - why draw through your deck looking for combo pieces when you could just tutor them?
In general, 2 cards is better than paying 2 life to tutor for a card. I put them in without really thinking about which was better in this deck in particular, but you're right, the black one is better in this deck. --qqzm

qqzm realised this morning that you can go off turn 4 in a couple of other ways:
Turn 1: Land, MTG: Birds of Paradise.
Turn 2: Land, (MTG: Darksteel Ingot), MTG: Careful Study ditching MTG: Mindslaver.
Turn 3: (Land), (MTG: Channel the Suns), MTG: Bringer of the White Dawn.

Where 2 out of 3 of the cards in () are required.

You can go off turn 3 using MTG: Chrome Mox but that requires a lot of specific cards in opening hand and owning 4x MTG: Chrome Mox, which I have no intention of buying while its price is still so far above how much it's worth.

You know, it's taken me several weeks to work out what you're trying to do here.  You are evil.  Very evil.  --FR

Fist of the Suns

ChrisHowlett has been wondering about uses for his badly-drafted MTG: Fist Of The Suns. It occurs that it would be a reasonable card to go in a Shared Fate deck - you'd be fairly certain of being able to play whatever you got. Running MTG: Ice Cave as well would be quite fun, although you'd want the fist down first...

PeterTaylor tweaked his Shared Fate deck to use some Fifth Dawn, but rather than Fist of the Suns went for MTG: Trinket Mage replacing the Fabricates as a way to fetch artifact lands.

Eon Hub

Just throwing down some quick ideas for the MTG: Eon Hub deck I was talking about on Tuesday...

Anything with Cumulative Upkeep.
MTG: Cosmic Larva
MTG: Razormane Masticore
MTG: Greater Harvester
MTG: Draco
MTG: Delaying Shield
MTG: Anurid Scavenger
MTG: Erhnam Djinn
MTG: Planar Chaos !!
MTG: Solitary Confinement
MTG: Grinning Demon
MTG: Loxodon Peacekeeper

MTG: Stasis meh!


Reversal of Fortune

MTG: Reversal of Fortune
Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You may copy an instant or sorcery card in it and play the copy without paying its mana cost.

The FAQ states: The spell is played from your opponent's hand, not yours, which can be important for some cards.

Challenge for Johnnies: find a way this could be relevant. Since it requires the card to be in your opponent's hand, it'd be unlikely to be viable to build a deck around in the same way as MTG: Bribery is; but you might be able to find a "friendly opponent" willing to play a certain deck against you... (Note that the Judgement MTG: Advocates could work quite well with this card...)

No idea on specific things that could make that important - but it's obviously things which say "When this leaves your hand" or similar.  It is, however, an unutterably wonderful card for really ruining your opponents day.  If nothing else, it forces them to use up their disenchants before you do...  --Vitenka
It doesn't force them use anything, since the original card is not played - it's the copy, so your opponent still has the original available. --CH
No - but if they don't use up their most devestating instants then you get to.  So they use their disenchant on your artifact, bufore you can force them to use it on theirs.  --Vitenka (Yeah, that's not the best result - but it's a pretty good 'if nothing else')
Ah, ok, I take your point. --CH
Well, most cards which say "if you played this from your hand" are creatures (like MTG: Furnace Dragon, MTG: Palinchron, MTG: Hypnox, etc). It's not been relevant up till now, because there weren't many ways to play an instant or sorcery from anywhere else! (Well, flashback and MTG: Panoptic Mirror, I guess...) The really bizarre thing about this card is that it creates a copy of a card in your opponent's hand. Unfortunately, a "copy of a card" is not a card itself, and everything that mentions things in people's hands refers to "cards" there. So this couldn't quite cause your MTG: Entropic Specter to trigger your opponent's MTG: Hidden Predators, but nearly... --AlexChurchill
Regardless of strangeness, it's nice to see that they finally found a way to make that black eye card work.  --Vitenka
MTG: Word of Command? Yes, it is cool to see a "fixed" version of that (although you could argue that MTG: Mindslaver is a rather more comprehensive "fix" to MTG: Word of Command...) --AlexChurchill

I suggest in a big multiplayer game, get a couple of MTG: Thornscape Familiar or MTG: Nightscape Familiar in play, and then cast first MTG: Reversal of Fortune, and then MTG: Radiate on it. Bonus points if you finish up on someone with a MTG: Mind's Desire in hand. --AlexChurchill

Deals-damage triggers

Don't know if anyone cares, but this is quite a good combo:  Enchant a weak creature with MTG: Quicksilver Dagger and MTG: Sigil of Sleep.  In effect this gives the creature the ability: tap: this creature deals one damage to target player.  Target opponent's creature is returned to owner's hand.  You draw a card.
What do you think?  --FR
I think you can use a Tim creature (such as MTG: Frostwielder) and save the Quicksilver Dagger. "Does damage" rather than  "does combat damage" triggers are great. There's a poison-counter creature that triggers on "does damage" IIRC, and isn't there a basilisk (bury creature done damage) that does it too? ^_^ --Requiem
Yes - MTG: Marsh Viper and MTG: Lowland Basilisk respectively. The Basilisk only destroys the creature "at end of combat", which means it waits until the next time a creature actually attacks, potentially several turns hence :) AlexChurchill probably still has his deck containing both of these as well as MTG: Viridian Longbow etc. --AlexChurchill
Many people who have played against StuartFraser's (greatly glowered at) MTG: Cowardice deck will agree that this manoeuvre is indeed fairly effective
Unfortunately The combo I suggested does rather need red and blue manna.  The only other enchant creature I can remember that allows you to deal damage on tapping is red as well: MTG: Laccolith Rig  --FR
I don't think you mean Laccolith Rig. There are creature enchantments that grant pinging in blue (MTG: Hermetic Study = MTG: Psionic Gift), red (MTG: Fire Whip or MTG: Arcane Teachings) or artifacts (MTG: Viridian Longbow as mentioned above). --AlexChurchill
Oh yeah, that's right: Lacolith rig deals damage equal to creature's power.  It's pretty good, really, isn't it?  Just don't use it on an ornithopter:)  Oh, and the good thing about quicksilver dagger is that it allows you to draw a card.  Maybe you don't always want that, though.  MTG: Razorfin Hunter could work, too.  --FR
Yeah. The ability is widespread. MTG: Cowardice is probably its best interaction IMO. --Requiem
Another interesting one would be to use These enchantments on a creature like MTG: Slith Bloodletter and make the creature stronger eveytime you do it.  --FR
No, that won't work, because the Slith's abilities (and most other damage triggers) only trigger when it deals combat damage to a player. That's what Requiem was talking about in the first reply to your suggestion above :) --AlexChurchill
Sorry, missread.  --FR
Amongst the most evil of these from recent times is MTG: Neko-Te... --AC


I just noticed. With the rules changes, MTG: Humility now acts as Animate Wall, too. --Requiem suddenly has a deck idea
You crazy man. It will also make them 1/1, you know. But I'm sure you of all people could come up with something! ;) --AlexChurchill
(PeterTaylor) *ahem* MTG: Fortified Area played after MTG: Humility. (Well, sure, you could play MTG: Glorious Anthem after Humility, but that doesn't have the right tribal feel).
Leonin Sun Standard. Orim's Prayer. Mirari's Wake. Shared Triumph. --Requiem goes off to find such cards...

Breaking Beacon of Tomorrows

I've been challenged by Requiem to find a way to break MTG: Beacon of Tomorrows, and I'm totally stumped, probably due to my inexperience and general suckiness as a Magic player.  Does anyone have any ideas?  --FR
Is Requiem happy for you to be asking ToothyWikizen"s? --CH
It wasn't very serious... at least, I think it wasn't.  And hey, why shouldn't I? 
As for the problem, I'm sure there must be something you can do with MTG: Stasis, or possibly some deck fixing cards (MTG: Darksteel Pendant or similar).  I just don't know enough cards.  --FR

Two obvious options are MTG: Panoptic Mirror, and MTG: Leveler (to be played just before the Beacon). --CH
One obvious thing to do is mill yourself down to zero cards, then play the sorcery.  It's then the only card in your graveyard and on your next turn - ooh, look what you drew.  Of course, you now have infinite turns and just the in-play zone to use.  Probably best with something that is gaining tokens every turn.  I think there's a fast way to do this with the decrees.  --Vitenka
Well, to take a leaf out of SingleCardStrategies?, let's look at the problem methodically. Notable factors about the card:

(PeterTaylor) You'll want an MTG: Archivist as well, then, and you'll want it to untap each turn.
Hmmm.  Here I go displaying my negligeable knowledge of cards, but it strikes me that MTG: Voltaic Key could, I am sure, be worked into this somehow...  --FR
(PeterTaylor) It only untaps one thing, and that thing must be an artifact. I think MTG: Aphetto Alchemist, MTG: Pemmin's Aura and MTG: Gilded Lotus is probably a better untap engine for this combo.
Slightly cheaper than the Lotus would be MTG: Wirewood Channeller and A.N.Other Elf. However, that introduces green, and requires another card. --CH
But does remove the requirement for the Alchemist. It turns out that MTG: Seedborn Muse (or MTG: Awakening) don't work if you're after the MTG: Stasis lock, as MTG: Seedborn Muse needs someone to have an untap step, and MTG: Awakening completely defeats it. Perhaps MTG: Winter Orb, MTG: Kismet and some way to tap a land each of their upkeeps? That way you do get to use MTG: Seedborn Muse.  It seems that the aim here is to just lock yourself against your opponent's win conditions and have a way to avoid decking yourself... but in a sillier fashion than the traditional MTG: Island Sanctuary :) It may be that rather than MTG: Stasis, MTG: Solitary Confinement is a more workable idea for the lock. It gives you a reason to actively want to skip your turns, for one thing ;)
Regrettably, I think you still need the Alchemist - otherwise you can't untap the Archivist, and so won't be able to draw your beacon in your opponent's turn. --CH
What? How are you planning to untap the Alchemist, and why can't whatever you're doing just hit the Archivist directly? Now perhaps a simpler draw engine would be MTG: Mind's Eye, which just needs some mana-producer (of which the deck already wants many) rather than an untapper. --AC
I was putting the Aura on the Alchemist. Then you tap the Channeller for UU, use U to untap the Alchemist, use the Alchemist to untap the Channeller, use U to untap the Alchemist, use the Alchemist to untap the Archivist, use the Archivist to dray the Beacon. Then tap the Channeler for UU, use U to untap the Alchemist, use the Alchemist to untap the Channeller, net gain U. Repeat until you can cast the Beacon with U spare to untap the Alchemist one last time in order to be back where you started. Without the Aura on the Alchemist, I think you'll never be able to untap both the Archivist and Channeller, which you need to do.--CH
''I was more thinking MTG: Isochron Scepter and MTG: Counterspell, some kind of untap engine, and 2 more mana. Sitting there looking smug is optional, as the opponent draws through their entire deck but can't answer. Silliest. Lock. Ever. --Requiem
(PeterTaylor) You won't be able to play the Beacon each turn unless you keep drawing it.
I got lost ages ago, but someone mentioned something to tap lands, so MTG: Mishra's Helix came to mind.  A bit expensive, and it means you have to tape lands, but it's just a thought.  --FR
Oops! MTG: Reach Through Mists on another Scepter? That would, however, require (a) no cards in library and (b)another 2 land. If the minimum deck sizes weren't there, then you could build this into a tiny deck, which would be guaranteed to work on turn $foo and not before. Hmm. It's probably far too silly. (looks up the list) Mind's Eye works. --Requiem

No, it is actually taking shape. We have:
Okay, it is looking pretty silly, but it does have some bizarre appeal... --AlexChurchill
You still need to draw without having another turn - hence the Archivist (or the MTG: Mind's Eye, as Requiem and I have been saying --AC); you need a second elf to make the Channeller work; MTG: Worship might be an means of not dying, if you can keep your creatures around. For which, since you're dumping your library into your graveyard and looking at White, how about MTG: Glory? And I'm sure, given you are AlexChurchill, that "but" in your sentence should be a "hence".--CH
Oops, another case of RTFC - I think I'd got MTG: Mind's Eye confused with another card. I din't think it was for drawing. Sorry! --CH

Since you're dumping mass amounts into your graveyard, Black would seem to provide an interesting "my strategy isn't going to work so lets cause some chaos" alternative.  --Vitenka (Who is also tempted to try and proxy this up)

ChrisHowlett gave this some thought last night, and came up with the following decklist. Caveats of the form "I don't have my card-binder or ready access to the internet, so the mana-curve and/or functionality may be hideous" apply.

24 Land to taste, including 4x MTG: Yavimaya Coast
Comments and refinements welcome!
You seem to be missing something to keep yourself alive earlier on, and some way to find your single beacon other than rapid drawing which I guess works.  Then again, an earlyish 10/10 creature kinda rocks for that.  Suggest using some of the 'extra mana for artifacts' land, and maybe some of those green enchantments?  --Vitenka (mussst buillld evil deck of doooom)Addition - I find it very very amusing that you've built a deck which MTG: Howling Mine kills :)
(PeterTaylor) No it doesn't, because you're not having any turns in which the Mine could force you to draw.
I have one very specific way of getting my beacon. I don't intend to have it in my hand. I need my board to have some combination allowing infinite mana, and MTG: Leveler and MTG: Eternal Witness in my hand. Then I play the Leveler, then the Witness, returning the Beacon. I'm now set up. I agree I'm a little light on early defense though... I assume you picked up that the "going-off" method of defense is Boomerang a permanent of yours, Shard my own Witness, untap the shard, replay the witness returning the boomerang?--CH
Doesn't work: MTG: Leveler RFG's it all. Hence in that sction above, the phrase "In the latter cases where cards are in the graveyard". --AC (we really want MTG: Enlightened Tutor, in some non-restricted form. Except we want creatures too. MTG: Insidious Dreams?)
Bother. That would be a functionality error...
Just a slight one, yes.  Having said that, the rapid rate of card drawing may be a viable seek, as long as you can turn that 1 into a 4...  I think it's safe to drop the orrery, unless I've missed something?  --Vitenka
(PeterTaylor) You have. Beacon is a sorcery, and the aim is to play it in your opponent's turn.
Ohhh, sorry.  I was playing it in our turn, to get infinite turns and thus fire up the infinite boomerang cycle and beating them to death with 10/10 creatures.  --Vitenka
(PeterTaylor) That's the problem with using Leveler to empty your library: it gives you a viable win condition other than decking your opponent.
You could ensure it died immediately for some reason... --Requiem
Just as a random aftertaste, it would be interesting to use MTG: Solarion.  When you have infinite turns and a creature thar doubles in power every turn?  Sounds good to me.  --FR
Oh, yeah. There are loads of ways to kill with infinite turns. The point is killing with the fact that you have infinite turns, not with anything the turns enable. --Requiem

Reverse Platinum

New thought: how does MTG: Platinum Angel and MTG: Reverse the Sands sound?  --FR
Overkill much?  --Vitenka
Interesting win condition. --Requiem

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