The same guys who have got us discounts on boxes can get AlexChurchill boxes of Saviors at 60 pounds per. (Insert Scientology reference here...) (Also preconstructed decks for 6.50 and fat packs for 16 pounds, if relevant.) No specific time limit has been set, but he'll get them for release day with us getting them shortly thereafter, so orders probably need to be in by about a week before that. Just let me know. --AlexChurchill
Oh yes, so do I now. Perhaps I typoed. I imagine about 2 are counterspells and about 6 are little beads. --AC
Splice: 8, spliced: 0 (as inMTG: Minamo's Meddling), splices: 0 (pity, I thought we could have "Whenever a player splices"... --AC) Arcane: 44 (seems about plausible counting normal arcane spells, spiritcraft, and counting again for splice) Legendary: 44 (enough for every rare permanent) Divinity: 0, indestructible: 0, Konda's: 0, Konda: 1 (perhaps as in MTG: Isamaru, Hound of Konda) Fallen: 2 (some name) X: 23
That's an awful lot! I suppose you could have a number of "this does Thing X times, where X is foo", like MTG: Tribal Flames and other domain cards. --AC
Y: 0, but Z: 1. Heh?
That's really odd. Perhaps something like "The A to Z of War"? (Unhelpfully, A of course returns 108...) --AC
Hand: 97 (!)
MuHaHaHa --AC, who's heard a rumour or two that this fits with
We can reduce this a leeetle bit, because every Splice or Soulshift card has "hand" in it's reminder text --CH
Note that the "CardOfTheDay?" every day so far this week has had "hand" in it's name. That's Wizards being subtle, that is. --CH
Ninjutsu: 0 (also Ninjitsu: 0) Offering: 0
Snake: 6 Rat: 4 Fox: 4 Goblin: 2 Moonfolk: 4 Human: 23 Soldier: 2, Cleric: 2, Advisor: 3 (!), Wizard: 7, Rogue: 1, Warrior: 7, Shaman: 7, Archer: 1, Monk: 7 Samurai: 11, Ninja: 0, Ninjas: 0. Bushido: 10. Dragon: 0, Ogre: 8, Demon: 6 (note that those last two appear on each other's cards a lot too) Spirits: 2, Snakes: 1. We can't tell whether the Moonfolk count is singular or plural, but it's 0 for Soldiers, Clerics, Wizards, Rogues, Warriors, Archers, Humans, Shamans, Foxes, Rats, Goblins, Ogres and Demons.
Onna? Kirin? --Vitenka Kirin: 10. Probably a cycle of 5 Kirin's, all named "<Colour-type descriptor> Kirin". --CH
Note that the Patrons (for instance) have the related name but not the creature type; that sort of thing would account for Akki:3 but Goblin:2. Still, how can there possibly be so few Goblins? --CH
That's a lot of mentions of Kitsune etc, though. I think you're right (something like "Advisor to the Kitsune", "Kitsune Daisho" and "Kitsune Ruse"), but it's still a lot. --AC
Or more likely, some of them mention themselves in their text box. "Sacrifice Avenging Kitsune: Avenging Kitsune deals 1 damage to each attacking creature." - cf wording on MTG: Soldier Replica. --AC, wondering why he didn't think of this earlier
Are there fewer creatures in this set or something? --FR
Creature: 178. Probably not, unless almost every non-creature card has something to do with creatures, which seems unlikely. --CH
Spirit: 75, which given spiritcraft triggers probably isn't quite enough to account for the imbalance. Curious. --CH
It's about saviours. I'd expect a LOT of soldiers and other humans. --Vitenka
Well, but 50% of the creatures in each of the Kamigawa sets so far have been Spirits. So we'd expect 50% of the creatures to have "Spirit" also. But remember there's a lot of noise on both sides, with Soulshift, Spiritcraft, and any number of specific cards all mentioning Spirits; and the majority of targeted instants and activated abilities having at least the option to target a Creature. --AC
Artifact: 15, which is quite a lot. Equipment: 3
Remember the "artifact" count will include things which destroy them or sacrifice them as well. Still fairly high. --AC, who reckons there's a piece of equipment called something like "Matsu-Tribe Longbow" to use up one of the "Matsu-Tribe"s
Plains: 4. Island, Islands: 0. Swamp: 2. Swamps: 1. Mountain: 0. Mountains: 2. Forest, Forests: 0. Make of that what you will (although note that it could be FlavourText?, I think) The only thing AC is reminded of is that the ACC for red recently involve sacrificing mountains (where white has tap creatures, etc). However, that doesn't fit with while: 2, blue: 2, black: 4, red: 3, green: 3
War, wars: 0. History: 1. Battle, battles: 0. Kamigawa: 1. Great: 0. Umezawa, Umezawa's, Toshi, Toshi's, Toshiro, Toshiro's, Lady, Princess, Michiko's: 0. Michiko: 1. I don't *think* it includes flavour text. --AC
Converted: 16 (!), cost: 22 (!), mana: 27, pool: 6, add: 10, colorless: 3. Which probably mean about 6 cards adding mana to your pool including nonbasic lands, 2 or 3 of them making colorless; and an awful lot of things which care about converted mana cost. I mean, that's really a lot: I don't think Scourge with its "size matters" theme can have had many more than that. But it's not just cards like MTG: Rush of Knowledge, since "permanents" returns 2. Any other ideas? --AC
Um - doesn't the spirit mechanic has 'converted' in its explanation text? --Vitenka
Ahhhhh. Good point: "soulshift" is 7, which will account for 7 each of "hand", "Spirit", "converted", "mana" and "cost" in the reminder text. Still leaves 9, which is a fair few, but probably accountable for with things like MTG: Slumbering Tora and MTG: Thoughtbind. --AC
EditConflict: Soulshift: 7. A few, but nowhere near enough to account for all the Converteds. I'm thinking that, with a high number of Converteds, Xs and Hands, we might be seeing some more pitch cards, like the Shoals (or alternate costs in general) - although I'm still boggling hugely at the number of Hands! --CH
There has to be a new mechanic which mentions 'hand' at least twice, I'm guessing. Probably three times. In some context like - when you play this card from your hand, you may return blah to your hand instead of paying its casting cost. --Vitenka (Which would fit with the previous ninja mechanic)
WUBRG: 0 - no simple 5-coloured card here then.
Token: 5, tokens: 3 (That's quite a few tokens. Not many spare Snake-s for them to be, so perhaps Spirits?)
Counts as "Playing" I believe. It's an interesting point, though - you still get your draw each turn even if you can't use it. I like the mechanic, but I can't help thinking that that one is just a little underpowered, in Block and Standard at least. --CH
Hondens? There are quite a few decent global enchantments this block. --Requiem
LOL! Indeed. Fairly cool in multiplayer, if you can keep her alive. And indeed MTG: Vassal's Duty does just that :) --AC
After reading the article, I OoI?'d for Mochi. Nothing. Then I searched for both 'crescent' and 'moon'. What's the betting that there's a rather interesting 'Kami of the Crescent Moon'? Or that Mochi is short for something? This is very interesting... --FR
Oh, superb :) That looks really rather fun. It's a pity it won't win you the game when it does its thing (although that would obviously be too silly and random), so for true Johnniness it'll need a way to get three of them into play (hmm, [Enduring Ideal]?) or keep resurrecting the same one. It also forms a fairly nice supplement to most other win conditions, if your deck's prepared for it, as his decks show. A better way to remove 40% of your opponent's life than MTG: Mindblaze, anyway. (And now I want to put both of them along with MTG: Grim Reminder into one deck...) --AlexChurchill
Very, very cool. The only problem I can see is that, if I open one at the pre-release, I'm really going to want to play it, just for kicks. --CH
It makes a good DoubleBind? card too - even in a limited play. Either you kill one of my attackers and then die next turn, or they smack you one and um, you die now. --Vitenka
Surely you can just sac something to donate this card if it's going to kill you? --FR
I'm going to have to check the rules for sacrifice again - but I'm pretty certain that you cannot sacrifice at will, being allowed to do that would break too many cards. But yes, it's sort of a board-clearer, as you decide whether you want to play pong with it or just eat the damage. I would usually eat the damage, unless I was fairly sure my opponent couldn't bounce it. (Same rationale as that 'take five damage or I draw two cards' card. MTG: Browbeat --AC) --Vitenka
Indeed - you can't sacrifice unless something says you can or must. You either need it as the cost to an activated ability, or as the effect of a spell or ability. --CH
It does sound to me like it could become the MtG version of hot potato. --FR
As 'tenka says, you can't just sacrifice cards at will. That's why things like MTG: Yawgmoth Demon or MTG: Rust Elemental can be quite a liability if you can't satisfy their upkeep and don't have any other way to deal with it. But as to what to do with this card in play: it will vary quite a bit depending on your current circumstances. Do you have a sorcery you've been waiting to play later? Having this around may make you consider playing it now. Got a MTG: Bottle Gnomes on the table? Maybe this might be the time to pop them. Got a MTG: Millstone? Maybe you might occasionally point it at yourself! And so on. --AC
Ooh! I've just noticed that the sacrifice effect doesn't have the words "if you do". So the following scenario is possible:
You've given your opponent this thing. They're out of options, so they sigh and let their turn end.
The sac-and-suffer ability goes on the stack.
You now put a card of theirs into their graveyard (by killing, milling, or whatever). The change-control ability triggers, and they have to target you. When it resolves, they have to give you your Measure.
Now the sac-and-suffer effect resolves. They can't sac it since they don't control it, but they still lose 8 life.
Now your turn starts, and you give it back to them somehow, ready to do the same thing again... --AlexChurchill, increasing his measure of wickedness
Was the "The legends rule no longer applies" card in Unhinged or is it in set? Because that's quite a nice Air Elemental. Just a pain good 'replace a middling sized critter with this one for no penalty' card. Added "Kill me quick" to draw the fire from the stuff you don't want dead. I don't rate milling as a viable strategy. And there's still a vast lack of disenchant and counterspell... --Vitenka
It's in Champions of Kamigawa. And I think milling is a perfectly viable strategy versus forty card decks... --Requiem
Well, I normally think it's unviable because if you dedicate enough cards to milling, you get stomped on before the mill works. If you lock-down and then mill, well, it's the lockdown doing the win, not the mill - you could win any which way. A whole cycle of cards that do this though, that could work - they give you mill as well as being usable in their own right. I don't expect we'll see that, though. --Vitenka
A 4/4 flyerblocker is rather useful for avoiding getting stomped on, though. Think of it this way: the card would be pretty good even if it was a Wall (mutter mutter had defender). It's one of those cards that provide both defense and alternate win condition in one. I'm almost certain the rest of the cycle won't mill, though: compare with MTG: Dreamborn Muse vs the other muses (MTG: Lavaborn Muse, MTG: Graveborn Muse etc). --AC
Yes - I'd assume the cycle will be '4/4 flyer that does *colour blah of x* when a spirit of cost x comes into play' But 4/4 isn't really a blocker for that cost - it should be a stompy thingy of doom. 4 is just enough to sotp it getting perfunctorily blown away, though. It's a decentish critter with an ok ability, or a mill that can also be useful - which puts it firmly in the 'good but not awesome' camp. Though I know a deck or two I'll hate it in. --Vitenka (Hate the flyers. Hate them.)
It's more that you only have to mill ten cards to win. --Requiem
That's a format thing, not a set thing. But yes, this thing will be devastating in limited - assuming that blue spirits is at all viable as a single colour. --Vitenka (perpetually terrified of manascrewdom)
With regards the "milling is unviable" comment - ask people about the Dreamborn Advocates deck I have. Admittedly, it's only really been tested as an Emperor, where it has a little bit of time to get set up, but it was quite effective there. --CH
Hey, I only said that I feel it to be unviable. Generally anything a milldeck could do to win, a direct damage deck could do faster. Usually with less vulnerability. --Vitenka (Emperor changes everything.)
Ok, fair enough. I did say it was unwarranted braggadocio ;). But anyway - I like that deck, and while DD would probably work better, mill is just so much fun in that form; the pleasure available in "Ok, I tap to prevent the damage from *that* - you can have two lands back. At the start of your next turn, mill 8" is quite large. --CH
MuHaHaHa. UW Control just acquired a heck of a win condition. If Vitenka is wondering how this survives direct damage, the answer is MTG: Blessed Breath splicing on MTG: Dampen Thought. The Dampen Thought deck is now, I think, a reasonable bet in Constructed as well as limited. Or alternatively it definitely will be when Mirrodin rotates out. --SF
AlexChurchill certainly thought of MTG: Dampen Thought when I saw this, but I wonder if there might be a problem in that Splice works a bit at cross purposes with (what I'm guessing is) the Kirin mechanic. Specifically, the Kirin wants you to play expensive Arcane spells, but Splice wants you to play cheap ones so that you can splice onto them. You do need 5 mana to get the Kirin out first, of course.
(I do like the idea (for a casual deck, not talking tournaments now) of using Offering to pay 4 for a MTG: Patron of the Moon but mill for 7. A mill-control deck has a few Soratami it might like to use, although I'm not sure MTG: Soratami Mindsweeper cuts enough mustard. And of course Soratami effects are at odds with both Splice and expensive spells... Perhaps the MTG: Patron of the Kitsune would be more effective for a Kirin strategy.) --AC, suffering rather from lack of focus. (Hey, a deck with small Soratami would love some Ninjas! And there's a Wizard who can make them unblockable, and another one to help you mill, and -- *explodes*)
I still see it as a 'throw it in' card. You get some extra free milling, which just might let you win. If the opposition panics and decides not to play 'draw extra cards' cards because of it, so much the better. --Vitenka
Cool flavour rather than cool mechanic. A possible cycle not unlike the Seals? --Requiem
Well, it goes well with the Epic we've already seen. It is, as mentioned, wonderful for "Ok, now I clear the board - oh, and out come all my replacements." It does look like a cycle, but a small one. I'd expect it to be keyworded in a later set. Something like "Recompense for creature you control leaving play: x == When a creature you control leaves play, sacrificie this, if you do: x" Still, calling it "Promise of" makes it sound like a cycle. --Vitenka
Promise: 2 - not a cycle with consistent names in any case. --CH
Sometimes instead of a cycle there seems to be a kind of counterpart in another opposing colour. I'm thinking here particularly of MTG: Emissary of Hope and MTG: Emissary of Despair in Darksteel. Is it not possible that the other promise has some kind of opposing effect in black? Oh, and V bja bar Fnivbhef pneq, enaqbzyl frag ol n znvy beqre fvgr V hfrq nobhg n jrrx ntb. ZGT:Bccerffvir+Jvyy, naq va pnfr gung qbrfa'g jbex, Vafgnag, 2H, Pbhagre gnetrg fcryy hayrff vgf pbagebyyre cnlf 1 sbe rnpu pneq va lbhe unaq. --FR
ROT13'd the unofficial spoiler. Sorry, FR, this is for official ones. --Requiem
Nope, both "Promise"s are on the same card - in the name, and in the "Sacrifice" text. Sorry. --CH
Although it's not especially a spoiler (the card is presumably blue, but we can't gain much more than that), I feel I have to link the Sakashima legend short story, simply for the mystery. The circumstances feel a little set up, but the mystery is fun, and challenging: I didn't get it, but I ought to have. The hint was there. Fun for those of you who like the stories behind the cards in Kamigawa block. --AC
There seems to be a hand theme afoot. Armageddon out of the set, too? --Requiem
Forget that. They just coined the word 'pants-geddon'! --Vitenka
Yup, hand size matters. That's quite a powerful 'Geddon. But you can't play it in a monored deck and plan to empty your hand then cast it. I think the whole "hand size matters" mechanic will create intriguing tensions, the way threshold did: both give you benefits for not having your cards in play. Intriguing... --AC
BwaHaHaHaHa?!! Superb! Why didn't I think of that?! --AC
Mmm, mana. It occurs to me that this hand theme is at least partially why there's quite so much discard in the set. --Requiem
Hand: 97 according to OoI?. I can't think of that many standard texts that would include it. There must be quite a lot, but still, I agree that 'hand' must be a fairly recurring theme. --FR
I refer you to [this] article, where they state as much. --Requiem
Interesting. This smells like part of a cycle, seeing as "Essence"=5, but "Flip"=4. Hmm... which colour is missing out? Actually, "flipped"=1, so that could account for it. But how would that work? "~this~ can't be flipped unless you control a basic land of each type"? I'm having trouble thinking of a wording where "flipped" would fit better than "flip". --GO
Indeed, that is odd. I can't think of a wording that would do that either. --AC
I've just seen the unofficial spoiler card with "flipped" on it. Trying to keep my comments here spoiler-free, I'll say only: the wording makes sense; the card itself is jaw-dropping. --AC
That's good to know, and thanks for your discretion! --CH
Not a great deal to say, but that could be a highly, highly potent fattie. A potential 7/6 for 4 mana is pretty good... --CH
Yes. Wibble. I can see myself muttering on multiple occasions when faced with this card after my deck doesn't have any: if you're facing a big fat creature, the last thing you're likely to want to do is hold cards in hand rather than playing them to deal with it. Scary card. MTG: Order of the Sacred Bell was bad enough. --AC
5 mana. Unless you have some nefarious scheme. --SF
My nefarious scheme is to do the addition "4 + 1" and come up with 4. --CH
Oh - and that's a nice text-less MTG: Mana Leak! I hope I've played enough to be eligible... --CH
Wow. Those are strong commons to be aware of for Limited. (Well, the last two at least. I don't think the Nezumi will be that great normally.) But I want four Spiritual Visits! An intriguing take on MTG: Raise the Alarm and interesting to compare with it. --AC
Some great fun things in here. Expecially the costless spell --Requiem
Argh - x does count as part of the converted cost for Kirin, differnet from all other converted costs (last time I looked, anyway) That will cause arguments.
X has always counted in the mana cost for a spell that is being played. It's just when it's not a spell that X is zero.
MTG: Choice of Damnations "If the number chosen is greater than the number of permanents the opponent controls, the player sacrifices nothing." - Should be greater than or equal to?
MTG: Iname as One ... Um. Evil. Play it. Search for itself and put it into play. Legendary clashes, so both die. Remove one from the game. Use that ability to put the other one back into play. Get beadbutted for time-wasting :) (Though it isn't infinite)
Wish on Panoptic Mirror. Do it once a turn! ^_^ --Requiem
MTG: Pithing Needle. Love the spoil ability. Love. Clever decks be dead. Um - is attack an activated ability?
... the druid that has soulshift seven is ouch! --Vitenka
Oh, yes, since the FAQ's gone up I can discuss Evermind here. Weird, weird, *weird* card! But so so cool. A very Saviors way of providing card-draw: it stays in your hand. But what struck me most about it is that there's now potential for cards in future sets to have Splice onto Creature, which before was impossible to template cleanly if the card had to be castable also. But now we could have, for example:
Reflex Training, no mana cost
(Spells without mana costs can't be played.)
Splice onto Creature 1W
This creature has first strike and comes into play with an (extra) +1/+1 counter on it.